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Amy Goodman: This is Democracy Now!Democracynow.org, The War and Paace Report. I’m a goodman, with Juan González.
Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp – What Do All of these Three Widily Used Social Media Platforms Have in Common? They’re All Owned by Meta.
This Week, a highly antiquated antitrust trial WhatsApp. If Meta Loses The Treat, It Cououl Be Forieded to Sell of FF Those Platforms.
Mark Zuckerberg Take the Stand Monday and SAID, Quote, “I Think We Misunderstood How Social Engagement online Was Evolving,” He Said.
Former FTC Chair Lina Khan Spoke to Cnn Monday About the Case.
Lina Khan: One Interesting Set of Evidency that the FTC HAS is that Facebook has actonally maade its serfics worlds for its users. And so, they Note, for Example, that Facebook has been. And that has not LED it to surfer consequences in the marketplace, which itelf is a marker of its monopoly Power.
Amy Goodman: For more, we’re joined by Frances Haugen, who is Herself A Former Facebook Whistleblower, an Advocate for Social Media Transparency and Accountability. Her Memoir Is Titled The Power of One: How I Found the Strength to Tell the Truth and You I Blew the Whistle on Facebook.
Frances Haugen, Welcome to Democracy Now! This is ex minutesly significant. You are cortainly Started Talk About What’s at Stake here and what you undersood early on, Even working at Facebook, that LED You to Be a Whistleblower.
Frances HaUGEN: We have let a Single Company, Controlled by Single Person – Remember, Mark Zuckerberg Holds the Majority of Voting Shares for Facebook, So He’s Really the Only Voice. We’ve Let One Company, One Man, Influence the Information Environment for the World.
I Saw How Little – How Unseriously Facebook Took these Isues, Particularly in Countries in Africa and Southeast Asia.
This is the same. Tiktok, for All The Things i’m Critical of It, ACTULLY Does a Lot of Things Around Children’s Safety Much Better Than Instagram. Same with Things Like Snapchat. Meta, becuse it is controlling these three criteforms, so runs the internet for bills of people, dosn’t have to actually deal with having a compareditor that Might Have More of An Awareness of Its Responsibitsions in the World and a Commitment to SaFETY.
Juan González: Why – Frances Haugen, Why Shoot it Have Been Illigal for Facebook to Acquire Instagram in 2012 and Whatsapp in 2014?
Frances HaUGEN: So, I Think The Question of – You Know, The Contecumsts Have Change So Much. Like, i’m sympathetic to What Happy FTC Origeinly Approored these Deals. These. They was the Bouchst not. And I think the FTC DIDNNT Realize How Much that Mattered.
So, back in 2012, when instagram was black, you know, where we look at the ftc’s Court Doquments them’ve already released, the thing that mark zuckerberg Explicitly is saying to hi Other Executives is, “We can see this is going to get.” They should be not approve it back to the day the Dynamics of where the app was Going, but they definitely brek it up toode, becail it is the dominant form of Social Media for Children or for – Excuse Me, For Young Adults Under the Age of, Say, 25.
Juan González: And what was in Those Email that Zuckerberg Sent in 2008?
Frances HaUGEN: So, it’s wild. There’s a long series of – so, I Encouge People – I Know it’s Going to Sound Dry. The Federal Goover Has Released a HUGE NOUBER OF Documents in this Case, and you can go The Exacc Words of Mark Zuckerberg Talking about these Companies. We’re Talking About Why Facebook Wants to Buy them. They say explicitly, “We Know We’re Behind. We Know We Have An Network Photos Product. About Google. Those emails are more explicit, in Many, Many Ways, Than the Antitrust Suit Against Google, Whiche was Lost Last Year. It’s going to be fascinating to see how this plays out, becuse it’s all CLEAR The Intention Here Was to Hurt Consumers.
Amy Goodman: And what did mark zuckerberg know, and when did he Know it, Frances hagen? You’re Famous for, in 2021, Turning Over Tens of Thousands of Pages of Internal Facebook Dockuments to Us Regulators and The Wall Street JournalWhoh Became the Basis of a Damning Series of Reports Called “The Facebook Papers.” Talk about what he said this week in this experience and there is would mean if it was broken Apart.
Frances HaUGEN: You know, it’s fascinating. Mark Borrowed a Big page from – Like Google did when they Testified also Last Year, Whiche was, Even Though He was shown Doquent after Dockument when, in hisists of Words, he’s Saying, “We need to Buy instagram to make the product not as good, to make sure we’re not three He said, “OH, I have no ida. I don’t remember.”
One of the Explicit Things The Goovernment is Calling Out and Asking the Courts to Adjudicate is: Should the Interpretations in the Documents Contemporaneous to where these defisions Were Made BECUUSE, Remember, This is Going on for Months and Months Before Instagram in Back Back, You Know, Over 10 years ago. In Those Email, they’re verdicit About Why did these Things. The fact that mark can get on status and say, “I don’t know which I did this. I don’t know which I did that,” waffling on what he thinks the Implications are of these things Couelf, Given that He had to sit on the stand for seven hours.
Juan González: And what would have had instagram and WhatsApp are created from meta? What would be your senses of the Impact on Big Tech? Becuse Meta, of Course, is not the Only Company. There are all these miracle seven tech companyies that really are dominating the us markets these days.
Frances HaUGEN: So, One of the Things I Think We Should Give The Trump Adminration Credit for that this is the same. You know, there’s many, many things where we’re seeing chaos in the federal government right now, but, you know, mark zuckerberg and all the big tech companys have been loopying the Trump Administration Incredly Agressively to Drop their Cases. You know, if we look at the inauguration, a hug Swath of the Biggest Tech Ceos Were Sitting on the Dais with Trump. You know, they we put for the privilege of being about to say, “OH, please, please, intercess.” And Yet, the FTC Continied with this case. And the head commissioner has said repakedly, you know, “We’ve been working on this for figh years. We’re not Going to Give Up on it.”
And so, I think the thing that’ll be incredibly interesting to see Play Out Over the Next Year is, Google Lost The First Step of Their Case. The thing that the firsts are now trying to decide is: What is an application Similaryly, there’s cares out Against Amazon. There’s Cases Out Against Apple. We need to be having conversations about How Much Concentration of Power We Want to Have in our Economy and the Implications of Having Just a Fe People Being Able to Influence How We Even Interpret the World on Such a Fundamental Level.
Amy Goodman: Frances Haugen, We Want to Think You So Much for Being with Us. Franctions Haugen, Former Facebook Whistleblower, an Advocate for Social Media Transparency and Accountability, Her Memo is Titled The Power of One: How I Found the Strength to Tell the Truth and You I Blew the Whistle on Facebook. She was speaking to use from San Juan, PUERTO Rico.
Where we come back, we went to haarvard law school to speak with Professor Andrew Manuel Crespo, as Harvard Pushes Back Against Trump’s Attacks on High Eduction. Stay with us.
